This Week in Arguments: Top 24 Female Stars?
In Bill Simmons’ very Bill Simmonisy article on the Movie Star in today’s Grantland, he makes the argument that 1.) Stars are sold as stars even when they haven’t actually earned the designation (his example: Ryan Reynolds). 2.) The only “real” movie star, as in the only star who consistently brings in huge audiences, is Will Smith, but
3.) Will Smith is a chicken shit when it comes to actually doing anything risky or awesome (at least since Six Degrees of Separation, his first role post-Fresh Prince) and that the fact that he’s the “only” movie star betrays something unsettling about the way that Hollywood (and its audiences) work.
This is all true, and I like the article, in part because it illuminates what a well-placed gossip-generating bit can do for an actor (marriage to ScarJo = tremendous rise in the Ryan Reynolds “stock”) and because it grapples with a question that has confounded analysts, academics, and audiences alike: what makes a star? Is it pure box office gross? Is it charisma? Is it audience affection? How do we define “movie star,” and why does it matter? (It obviously does, otherwise we wouldn’t hash it out so often).
And because this is Bill Simmons, he also employs an elaborate sports metaphor to get at the point he’s trying to make concerning pop culture. In this case, it’s quarterbacks and all-stars.
Reynolds has three things going for him: he’s likable and handsome; he dated and married Scarlett Johanssen at the peak of her buxom powers (getting a nice Us Weekly career boost out of it); and he works in an industry that doesn’t have nearly enough leading men. The third point matters the most. I’d compare the “leading man” position to the NFL’s quarterback position — we need 32 starting QB’s every year regardless of whether we actually have 32 good ones, just like we need 40 to 45 leading men every year regardless of whether have 40 to 45 good ones. That makes Reynolds someone like Alex Smith: he’s a no. 1 draft pick, he has all the tools, you can easily talk yourself into him being good … and then, six games into the season, you realize that you’re not making the Super Bowl with Alex Smith….
…..A good way to think about it: You know how 24 players make the NBA All-Star game every year? Those are the stars for that season. Just because Richard Hamilton made the 2008 All-Star team doesn’t make him an All-Star in 2011. Things change. Careers go up. Careers go down. You pick another All-Star team. It’s really that simple. Of course, Hollywood can be confusing because someone can feel like an All-Star without ever having a good “season.” Reynolds is the best example.
Later in the piece, Simmons takes the idea of the 24-person all-star team and extends it to Hollywood today. Going on the unscientific and unspecific combination of movie-opening, visibility, pay-check, and leading-man-placement, there are 24 stars today:
Smith and Leo; Depp and Cruise; Clooney, Damon and Pitt; Downey and Bale; Hanks and Denzel; Stiller and Sandler; Crowe and Bridges; Carell, Rogen, Ferrell and Galifianakis; Wahlberg and Affleck; Gyllenhall (it kills me to put him on here, but there’s just no way to avoid it); Justin Timberlake (who became a movie star simply by being so famous that he brainwashed us); and amazingly, Kevin James.12 All of them can open any movie in their wheelhouse that’s half-decent; if it’s a well-reviewed movie, even better.
With the exception of Kevin James, I’m pretty much on board, and I like the way he’s put them in pairs that make some sort of weird sense. Except, as noted by one commenter on the blog’s Facebook page [seriously, join, just do it], this list has no women. Now, I don’t think that Simmons doesn’t think that there aren’t female movie stars, but he never explicitly said “I’m talking about male stars.” Maybe it’s that he doesn’t see enough movies with major female stars and considers it outside of his realm of expertise. Maybe that would’ve doubled the length of the article, and he was, after all, talking about Ryan Reynolds and Will Smith. Whatever. What matters, at least for this post, is that we’ve got our work cut out for us. I’m going to start with some sure-things, and then we’ll have to duke it out for the rest.
SO LET’S DO THIS, KIDS. TWENTY-FOUR FEMALE STARS. But maybe we’ll rank them somewhat differently? Going for a score of 50? Totally unscientific but maybe ballparky?
Category 1: Bankability/Box Office Grosses (10 points)
Category 2: Charisma/”Movie star quality” (10 points)
Category 3: Gossip/Visibility (10 points)
Category 4: Prestige/Diversity of films/Oscar bait (10 points)
Category 5: Endurance/Tested-and-True/Even-your-parents-know-who-this-person-is (10 points)
TIER ONE: THE MAINSTAYS
1.) Angelina Jolie
Bankability: 8. Tomb Raider, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, Wanted, Salt
Charisma: 10.
Gossip: 10. Do I need to explain this to you?
Prestige: 9. A Mighty Heart, other indie stuff from early career, massive points for global philanthropy efforts.
Endurance: 8.
TOTAL: 45
2.) Sandra Bullock
Bankability: At the moment, 9. The Proposal and The Blind Side both hit it out of the park. Riding that wave with adaptation of Jonathan Franzen’s Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close with Tom Hanks.
Charisma: 7.
Gossip: A year ago, this was a 10. Today, an 8.
Prestige: 5. I don’t care if she won an Oscar and was all gracious, she still plays the same character over and over again, which is the opposite of “prestige” and what truly makes stars interesting.
Endurance: 10. Speed and Hope Floats to the present. All ages love this woman.
TOTAL: 39
3.) Meryl Streep
Bankability: I can’t believe I’m typing this, but 9. It’s Complicated, Julie & Julia, Mamma Mia, The Devil Wears Prada — lady’s got PULL.
Charisma: 7. She’s not a movie star so much as a phenomenal actress, which means that the charisma gets a bit sublimated in favor of the performance.
Gossip: 1. Which is the fascinating thing about Streep: a movie star with very little extra-textual information available for consumption.
Prestige: 10.
Endurance: 10.
TOTAL: 37
4.) Julia Roberts
Bankability: Used to be a 10, now a 7. Eat Pray Love did well, but Duplicity made everyone question her value. Before that, hadn’t opened a film on her own since Mona Lisa Smile.
Charisma: 10. Yes, horse mouth, etc. etc., but you can’t deny what this woman has.
Gossip: 5. She was gossip’s dream girl for most of her 20s and 30s, but is now super boring.
Prestige: 5. Like Bullock, an Oscar in a role in which you play a slightly different version of your star persona does not equal prestige.
Endurance: 10. After a hiatus to have children, seems to be back in the game. Arguably the only one on this list who’s been a true powerhouse at the box office.
TOTAL: 37
5.) Cameron Diaz
Bankability: 6. Unreliable; seems to have made some poor choices. Bad Teacher, What Happens in Vegas (barf), sure, but also My Sister’s Keeper (poor Alec Baldwin), The Box, and the misfire that was Knight and Day. Even The Holiday (which I kinda secretly like?) was no hit.
Charisma: 7.5 (Funniness is not necessarily movie-star-ness)
Gossip: 8, although I hate that it has everything to do with A-Rod.
Prestige: Used to be a 9, now about a 5. Remember Being John Malkovich?
Endurance: 9. The Mask was in 1995.
TOTAL: 36.5
6.) Reese Witherspoon
Bankability: 6. Sweet Home Alabama, Legally Blonde 1 & 2, Walk the Line, Water for Elephants, but also a bunch of stinkers: Just like Heaven, Rendition, Penelope, Four Christmases, How Do You Know.
Charisma: 9. That face.
Gossip: 6. Much more interesting when she was with Jakey G; a handsome agent is so borrrrrrring.
Prestige: 7. Oscar for Walk the Line, amazingness in Election. Needs another curveball.
Endurance: 8. Remember Man on the Moon? A Far off Place? Girls got legs.
TOTAL: 36
TIER TWO: THE BORDER-LINERS
7.) Natalie Portman
Bankability: 4. Sure, Black Swan, but Your Highness, Brothers, Hesher, No Strings Attached, and The Other Woman all underperformed and/or bombed. Thor also did well, but I wonder how much that had ot do with Portman (I didn’t even really know she was in the movie?)
Charisma: 7.
Gossip: 5. Smart move with the baby-daddy; too bad he’s such a creepazoid. Not like she’s going to sell the baby pictures any time soon.
Prestige: 10. Her movies may not always do well, but the girl’s got guts. Still on the Oscar-high.
Endurance: 8. Picking and choosing ever since The Professional, but still young.
TOTAL: 36
8.) Rachel McAdams
Bankability: 7. She’s not quite strong enough to open a picture on her own — see Morning Glory and State of Play - but she’s getting there. Good showings in The Notebook, Red Eye, The Time Traveler’s Wife, Sherlock Holmes.
Charisma: 10. They don’t call her the next Julia Roberts for nothing.
Gossip: 8. Much higher when she was with The Goz, but we’ll settle for the relationship with Michael Sheen.
Prestige: 7. Attempt at arthouse with Married Life, nothing that’s really stretched her, save the recent turn in Midnight in Paris, which was so deliciously unlikable.
Endurance: 5.
TOTAL: 37
9.) Kate Winslet
Charisma: 7. Something in the eyes.
Gossip: 4. Split from Sam Mendes? Yawn.
Prestige: 10. Even an HBO remake of Mildred Pierce. All prestige, all the time — in fact, maybe she’d do well to do a non-prestige pic?
Endurance: 8. I loved you in Titanic and Sense and Sensibility, young Kate!
TOTAL: 34
10.) Anne Hathaway
Bankability: 6. Hasn’t really proven herself as a leading actress who can pull in audiences — both Devil Wears Prada and Bridewars had major names other than hers. Love and Other Drugs was a disappointment. We’ll see how One Day fares.
Charisma: God I cannot stand her, but 8.
Gossip: After the engaged-to-embezzler-business, nothing much. 6.
Prestige: Rachel Getting Married was a brilliant choice for her star brand.. Plus Becoming Jane, in which I can nearly stand her. 8.
Endurance: Princess Diaries! 6.
11.) Scarlett Johannson
Bankability: 6. She’s a big part of Iron Man 2 and The Avengers, but she’s certainly not the franchise. Hasn’t carried anything big since The Nanny Diaries, which wasn’t a huge success. Lots of supporting roles in ensemble pieces.
Charisma: Once there, now faded. See my earlier piece. 6.
Gossip: 8. Divorce from Ryan Reynolds, dalliance with Sean Penn.
Prestige: 8. The roles in Lost in Translation and Ghost World will carry you a long way. Plus Woody Allen’s new muse.
Endurance: 6.
TOTAL: 44
12.) Halle Berry
Bankability: 3. A string of real bombs: Frankie & Alice, Things We Lost in the Fire, Catwoman, with only the X-Men and Bond Girl roles in between to anchor her.
Charisma: 7. Beguiling.
Gossip: 7. Oh gawd the Gabriel Autrey saga. Plus a baby that’s fifty times ridiculously adorable.
Prestige: Struggling to get her films seen, still an 8 — and with an Oscar.
Endurance: 7.
TOTAL: 32
TIER THREE: THE UNTESTED
13.) Kristen Stewart
Bankability: 7. I realize that this is all tied to the Twilight franchise, but we’ll see how she works outside of it. I do think she has at least the pull of RPattz or Taylor Lautner, both of whom are considered burgeoning stars.
Charisma: 5. Lip-bitting is not charismatic.
Gossip: 9. Very smart move, that falling in love with Edward/RPattz-ness.
Prestige: 8. Lots of risky, financially unsuccessful, but laudable projects, including Runaways and Adventureland (you guys, watch this movie).
Endurance: 3. Again, so much remains to be seen.
TOTAL: 32
14.) Emma Stone
Bankability: 7, which could very quickly become a 9. This girl is ON: after the success of Easy A, she’s in Crazy Stupid Love with The Gos, The Help (pre-sold up the wahtosee), and then the new Mary Jane in Spider-man. She is on the brink of something BIG.
Charisma: 9. She’s got it.
Gossip: 8. Lots of gossip about potential hook-up with Andrew Garfield, her new Spider-man.
Prestige: 3. Nada. The Help is not a prestige picture just because it’s about race relations, people.
Endurance: 2.
TOTAL: 28
15.) Mila Kunis
Bankability: 5. Totally unproven; up next in Friends with Benefits, which looks like it might hit big. We’ll see. Also a movie with Mark Wahlberg, but no huge franchises or projects on the horizon.
Charisma: 8. Holy shit yes.
Gossip: 7. Rumored hook-ups with Timberlake. Long term relationship with Macaulay Caulkin now over.
Prestige: 5. Lesbian sex scene = prestige? But it was in Black Swan…..
Endurance: 2.
TOTAL: 27
***********
Alright. I got 15. We need 9 more. Give me your submissions, ratings, and reasoning? I’ve missed a bunch — Drew Barrymore, Kate Hudson, Kristen Wiig (???) — but tell me who else? I want to make it clear that there are at least 24 all-stars to go with the males in play. [Or, alternately, fight with me. I'm ready. Bring it. I dare you to say that The Other Boleyn Girl was a good movie.]
50 Responses to “This Week in Arguments: Top 24 Female Stars?”
I think you definitely have to include Drew Barrymore. She’s low in the “Prestige/Diversity” category, but she produces most of her own work, plus some for others, and keeps getting bankrolled to do it. She might be low in Gossip (for now), but I’d say she’s high in Endurance, and even if not all people are drawn to her Charisma, I think the fact that people are familiar enough to have strong feelings is telling. I think Jennifer Aniston should be included. Like Barrymore, low in the “Prestige/Diversity” column, but certainly high in Gossip, Endurance, Charisma, and Bankability (whether or not her films have huge box office her attachment seems to guarantee a greenlight).
I CANNOT BELIEVE I FORGOT JENNIFER ANISTON. And Drew Barrymore absolutely deserves a spot.
First: I’m totally on board with this list, and with where everyone falls (though I love Anne Hathway, so hush).
I’ll let someone else tackle Barrymore and Hudson (not sure Wiig qualifies yet), but wanted to toss out Katherine Heigl as a potential.
Bankability: Knocked Up wasn’t her’s, but it certainly got her press and attention. 27 Dresses and Ugly Truth both did pretty well ($77mil and $89mil respectively); but Killers and Life As We Know It didn’t do nearly as well, so….6?
Charisma: I personally don’t get her appeal, but she’s known, popular. 6.
Gossip: Harder for me to judge, since I don’t follow it, but the Knocked Up comments, again, gave her a lot of profile. Her marriage, however, seems kind of dull. 7.
Prestige: Life As We Know It seemed like a stab at something serio-comic as opposed to straight comic, but her upcoming projects don’t scream prestige either. (Perhaps desiring to avoid drama after Grey’s?) So 3.
Endurance: Still to be seen, I think, but I think she’s in better shape than Stewart given how Heigl is executive producing some of her films, may keep herself around. 5.
TOTAL: 27.
Despite that, I think she’s more borderline than untested.
I agree that she’s Borderline, but on the verrrrry bottom. If she doesn’t make something big, and soon, then she’s out.
Nicole Kidman? Charlize Theron? Keira Knightly? Jennifer Garner? Tina Fey?
All good candidates, but I need some arguments.
Fair!
Tina Fey is the most interesting.
Bankability: She wasn’t the attraction for Mean Girls (86 mil), but did well with Baby Mama (60 mil) and Date Night (98 mil!) and was a big part of the marketing for Megamind (148 million). Maybe 5?
Charisma: Who in the hell doesn’t love Tina Fey? I’m not entirely sure she’s a “movie star” yet, but she’s definitely a known — and liked — quantity. So 8?
Gossip: Not for her personal life in particular, but I’m wondering where the SNL/Palin stuff fits in. That was a fairly substantial deal, one that elevated her profile substantially. I won’t give it too much credit though, let’s say 5.
Prestige: Very little if we’re only talking television. 1?
Endurance: Mean Girls was seven years ago, and her profile is only going to grow in the future. 4?
TOTAL: 23. Not too bad, I guess.
OK, now I’m invested in this.
Jennifer Garner:
Bankability: She’s been apart of a number of big ensemble successes (Pearl Harbor, Catch Me If You Can, Juno, [gulp] Daredevil, Valentine’s Day). Each of those is 100 million-plus. As the main attraction, it’s not so pretty: 13 Going on 30 (57 mil), Elektra (24 mil) and Catch and Release (15 mil), with Ghost of Girlfriend’s Past (55 mil) and The Kingdom (47 mil) somewhere between the two. Decent, but definitely not great, 5?
Charisma: People seem to like, but not love her (see her solo box office figures), 6.
Gossip: The Scott Foley break up? Dating Vartan? All the scuttlebutt on the Daredevil set when Affleck was still part of Bennifer and then the subsequent hoopla since they officially got together? She’s quietly built up a nice presence. Her kids are adorable, this seems important. 8.
Prestige: Very little, but not completely minuscule. People liked the Kingdom, her appearance in Juno was well-received. Arthur is unfortunate, though. 3.
Endurance: For someone who hasn’t actually done much in film when you look at it like this, she’s been around for a bit. Dude, Where’s My Car was 2000, Pearl Harbor 2011. 5.
Total: 27, not bad.
Weird suggestion: Helena Bonham Carter.
Bankability: This is insane, but based on BO alone, she’s the 40th most successful performers OF ALL TIME. Planet of the Apes (180 mil), Big Fish (66 mil), Charlie and Chocolate Factory (206 mil), Corpse Bride (53 mil), Terminator Salvation (125 mil), Alice (334 mil), King’s Speech (138 mil) and last three HPs (292, 301, 295 respectively). I know that she wasn’t the primary draw in any of these, but the quantity speaks for itself. 6?
Charisma: She’s not supremely well-known, but there’s definitely something there. 4.
Gossip: The marriage with Tim Burton hasn’t been that notable, but her fashion sense always seems like a topic of discussion during awards season and various red carpets. 5.
Prestige: Two Oscar noms, Six Golden Globe noms, a BAFTA nom and roles in all sorts of Oscar-bait films. 8.
Endurance: Played Don Johnson’s love interest on Miami Vice in 1986, nominated for a BAFTA for Howard’s End in 1992. She’s been around. 8.
Total: 31. Huh.
I was thinking about Tina Fey too, and she’s especially interesting because I think we can and should consider “transmedia” or multimedia or even just tv or music stars alongside film stars in these discussions.
I think you can up Fey on prestige bc 30 Rock is certainly critical acclaimed and both 30 Rock and her work on SNL while not prestige in the sense of Oscar worthy or prestige dramatic acting are satirical and political which sets her apart from a more generic comedian or sitcom star.
Also endurance, she started at SNL in 1997, and I think she also gets some credit for her time with Second City even if thats local.
Because of her success as head writer at SNL and on 30 Rock in addition to films, I’d up that to maybe a 7.
I agree on Charisma (8) and gossip (5).
Prestige definitely up to at least a 6 (maybe even 7) and endurance to maybe a 7 (possibly even 8)?
My (conservative) estimate for Tina Fey then is…. 33? which puts her in a border-liner.
I agree with Mabel’s scoring for Tina Fey. I feel like Fey is on the Steve Carrell track to movie stardom (with an extra boost from her Palin impersonation). There’s a lot of parallels there.
The problem with Fey, as you allude to, is she doesn’t signify as movie star, but as television star/comedian. I’d say she signifies very similarly to Steve Carrell, who, sure, is technically a movie star, but do you say that? Do you say “Steve Carrell, movie star”? Do either one of them have “big screen” charisma? Don’t get me wrong; I seriously love them both, but again, I think the 8 on charisma is way high. There’s a difference between loving someone (hey, I love Chuck Bass!) and them having movie star quality.
Jennifer Aniston
Katherine Heigl
According to Guinness, Emma Watson was the top-grossing actress of the 2000′s.
Blake Lively, maybe
A Fanning or two
Jennifer Lawrence
Megan Fox
Olivia Wilde
Kiera Knightley
Carrie Mulligan
Amy Adams
Zooey Deschanel
Ellen Page
Amanda Seyfried
Anna Faris
Cate Blanchett
Can someone do a case for Heigl? And does Watson have a future? Lawrence seems incredibly untested, although Hunger Games might make her. I want actual scores for these — I’m absolutely fascinated by this whole thing, but I got fatigued after 15. Humor me?
Zooey Deschanel…
Bankability: “(500) Days of Summer” was her last big movie and it made $32M. It was also the only thing she really carried. Her biggest movie was the Jim Carrey vehicle “Yes Man,” with $228M worldwide. She’s been a bit player in other big movies — “Bride to Terebithia,” “Failure to Launch” and “Elf” were all $100M+. 4.
Charisma: She’s quirky and idiosyncratic, so people seem to love her or hate her. I’m not sure it makes her more or less charismatic, but I find her charming, so I’m going to give her a 7.
Gossip: Married to the guy from Death Cab and seemingly scandal free. Seems to have a healthy relationship with her also-adorable sister. So… no gossip, but extra-textual life gets her a 3.
Prestige: Does a lot of indie and indie-lite movies in addition to critically acclaimed TV. Plus, She & Him is an appropriately accessibly high-brow side project. Plus, “Almost Famous” was her second movie, so she broke out with quality. 8
Endurance: “Almost Famous” was in 2000. “Elf” was her breakout role and that was 2003. I’m going to go with 7.
30
Sadly, I feel like I’m pushing to get this to 24, but I think you could include Nicole Kidman (mainstay), Cate Blanchett (mainstay), Kirsten Dunst (borderliner), Emma Watson (untested), Zoe Saldana(untested) and Olivia Wilde (untested). I agree with Drew Barrymore, Jennifer Aniston and Katherine Heigl also being included. Whew, 24. Maybe.
I also think this is subjective to the time period you’re analyzing. Has Susan Sarandon stopped being a movie star? Demi Moore? Michelle Pfeiffer? Though none of them have had financial hits in years, they were all huge stars at one point, so do they now just cease to be movie stars? Does that apply to famous actors and actresses who have died? At what point does Marilyn Monroe stop being a movie star?
You bring up a great point — when does someone STOP being a star of that age? Jennifer Lopez absolutely was a star in the early 2000s. No question. But she’s not today — she’s almost an anti-movie-star, in that her films tank under the weight of her stardom. But she’s managed to rejuvenate her career via Idol, so I’d say she is a star again….but not a movie star.
Susan Sarandon was always arguable, in part because she didn’t make blockbusters, mostly just prestige films. But Demi Moore and Michelle Pfeiffer (and Moore in particular) were both hot, hot shit in the late ’80s and early ’90s. We have a lot of critical myopia when it comes to talking about older stars still working in Hollywood, forgetting how powerful they once were.
But again, that doesn’t mean that they’re on the all-star team last year. The all-star team of all time? (The Dream Team?) Maybe. (That’d be another fun project).
It’s kind of amazing how quickly Jennifer Lopez has fallen out of these sorts of discussions. 5 years ago she was one of the top paid stars in Hollywood.
You could also make an argument for Penelope Cruz-while she’s not really a *Hollywood* star, I think her stardom translates even when Americans aren’t watching most of her films. And hey, if we’re counting Woody Allen muse-ness…
Cruz does pull in a different global demographic (which might have been part of the motivation to cast her in Pirates 4) but I still think she’s way too prestige, with very little box office clout. Nine bombed, and other than that she’s spent most of her time in Woody Allen and Almodovar pictures. (Not that I’m complaining — I love those films — they just don’t make her a star any more than, say, Juliette Binoche is a star).
Nicole Kidman
Bankability: Even though I will watch everything this woman is in, I’d say a 7. There was a time (after _Moulin Rouge_) when she was a hot ticket for sales, but I think her Prestige has led her too far down the indie path. Although great, I don’t think most people saw Rabbit Hole last year. On the other hand, she can sell Chanel.
Charisma: 10. I know some people absolutely can’t stand her, but she has really been at the top of Hollywood glamour for a long time. Looks, fashion, poise, and a very charming Australian accent. Doesn’t she basically set the stage for classy fashion? I think she’s one of the closest we’ve got to old Hollywood. Letterman falls to distracted pieces every time he interviews her.
Gossip: 8. Recently Nicole’s a bore, but there was that whole Tom Cruise thing. Then her marriage to Keith Urban. Then the DOES SHE OR DOESN’T SHE Botox fixation. And whenever other Australians get in trouble (hello Russell C) she’s right in the mix.
Prestige: 10. There are the Oscar noms (and the win) and then versatility of genres. Rabbit Hole, Margot at the Wedding, Dogville, Moulin Rouge, etc. etc. Woman can swing an accent, too. It wasn’t really until I started watching her in interview that I realized how different she is from public Nicole to silver-screen Nicole. She’s rather giggly, brash, and funny out of scripted character. And she snorts when she laughs.
Endurance: 10. Days of Thunder (1990). Two films this year, three in pre-production, and nine in dev.
Total: 45
COLLEEN. You have stars in your eyes. Have you looked at her recent films? Rabbit Hole, Nine, Australia, The Golden Compass, Margot at the Wedding, Fur, Bewitched, The Interpreter, Birth, The Stepford Wives — some big pictures, some small prestige pictures, but all critical and financial disappointments (save Rabbit Hole and Margot, which did get some good press). She is well known in the industry as box office poison — kinda the same way people talked about Hepburn in the late ’30s. (This doesn’t mean I dislike her — Moulin Rouge, I love you forever). But I’d actually put her at a 4.
The decisions with her face and plastic surgery have really affected the way that most people feel about her and her movie star-ness. Plus the obvious gossip posturing with Keith Urban. I do agree that her prestige is still at a 10.
She was in the top five, maybe in top three coming off of Moulin Rouge and the Cruise divorce. But that’s no longer the case.
Ha ha. Prolly true, I’m such a fan. Sigh.
Yannow, it’s strange. When I think star, I tend to think of more mature women (my bias, no doubt), but so many of the recommendations here are so young. So goes the way of the aging actress now I suppose.
On a side note, as much as I love Tina Fey, and you know I do, she is not a star. In complete agreement there.
I actually like the Helena B. Carter suggestion. She was a draw for all those period films and I think The King’s Speech harkens back to that. And let’s not forget Fight Club.
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I think J.Lo may in fact work, and again this is emphasizing the transmedia star rather than the strickt movie star. I really don’t know that much about her specifics, so perhaps someone can help me out, but lets see…
Bankability: This is a big one I don’t know on. Has she really had any failed records? I’m sure she’s had movie flops, but has she even done a movie recently? But the big one right now of course is American Idol. She and Steven Tyler seem to have done a pretty good job resucitating the show, right? I don’t watch myself and I don’t know the ratings, but I’ve heard good things, so conservatively I’ll give her a 6 on this.
Charisma: also not totally sure, gonna go with another 6 here, but please argue if I’m wrong.
Gossip: 6 seems about right again, I know she married Marc Anthony and had kids recently, and historically she’s was a big deal with Puffy and Ben Affleck which might bump her up to a longer term 7, oh and her butt! I think that should get her a 7 even if we dont hear about it much now, but we’ll go conservative 6, generous 7.
Prestige: In terms of film or tv roles, obviously she’s got very little. But as I said about Tina Fey above, I think we can reconsider what we mean by prestige when we’re talking about someone who’s not strictly a film star. In terms of diversity, she’s done tv, movies (both drama and romcom), recorded records and dances so she’s good there. I also think that though her records were always pretty strictly pop and she hasn’t won any grammy’s, she should get credit for being part of (if not exactly at the forefront of) the trend toward latin sounds and latin/hip-hop/r&b hybridity both in terms of her music and her dance. I’m gonna go with a 7 here though that maybe could be an 8 if we emphasize the diversity part of the category.
Endurance: She goes back to 1991 on In Living Color and 1993 as a back-up dancer for Janet Jackson. Conservative 8, though I think that could easily go up to a 9.
Conservative total: 33
Generous total: 36
I was going to wonder if a “transmedia star” could really be a movie star, as in I wonder if the aura of movie acting is changed by singing and performing on stage — like if because J.Lo sings about her Louboutins it means she loses some of the prestige and respect that goes with MOVIE STAR.
At first the only male star music projects I could think of were the vanity side bands like 30 Odd Foot Grunt but then I remembered Will Smith’s song tie ins with Men In Black and Wild Wild West. And since he’s apparently the only “real” movie star, now I’m all sorts of confused.
The people that I think definitely should be on this list have already been mentioned: Nicole Kidman (whose career probably peaked around Moulin Rouge, The Others, The Hours but is still deserving of a spot) and Drew Barrymore (high bankability and charisma, produces her own films). Jennifer Aniston and Kate Hudson are also deserving, for their consistent ability to sell a rom-com. Kirsten Dunst looks like she might be having a resurgence.
I’d be tempted to toss Amy Adams in there, as she seems to have been in EVERYTHING the past few years - from family fare (Enchanted, Night At The Museum, The Muppets) to indie (Junebug which “broke” her with the best supporting Oscar nom, Sunshine Cleaning) to high-drama Oscar bait alongside other heavy-hitters (Doubt, The Fighter). I’d argue that her presence in the mainstream family-friendly films adds prestige to them as well.
Cate Blanchett and Tilda Swinton would also score high for prestige (I’d rate them alongside Kate Winslet, who I think should be much higher). I seem to remember an article that touted Naomi Watts as one of the best ‘value for money’ stars in terms of salary to returns - not completely certain she should be on here but just thought she might make an interesting case either way. ALL these people are more deserving of a mention than Mila Kunis who, gorgeous as she is, is basically in here on the strength of just one film.
I also think Angelina Jolie is consistently overrated (this may be due to my dislike of her). Yes, she’s marketable in the action flick roles but she is unable to draw people to her “serious” work like say, Kate Winslet can - weren’t Changeling and Mighty Heart underperformers? She couldn’t even get the Oscar nom for Mighty Heart that everyone thought she would. And let’s not forget the elephant in the room that is The Tourist.
And just a last minute thought - whatever happened to poor Renee?!
POOR RENEE is right. I don’t like her/her films, but she’s absolutely dropped out of the list in an unceremonious way. I love Tilda, but she can’t carry a film — she’s a supporting/character actor the way Steve Buscemi is.
I also think Amy Adams deserves a spot — in addition to loving her to pieces (ever since Junebug) and the three Oscar noms, she does seem to have an enormous popular draw). Is she movie star-ish?
….and forgot Gwnyneth Paltrow. Bankability: Iron Man, ok, not on her back, but, still, money on the table.
Charisma: I don’t much care for her, but, some bodies out there like her.
Gossip: she has kids and Goop now, but back in the day… had Brad before Jen and Angelina.
Prestige: Oscar. Tom Stoppard. Shakespeare. and a few other things.
Endurance: I saw young Wendy Darling in Hook (unabashedly love that film) in the early 90′s.
She’s admittedly ooky in many respects (I’m not a fan of the hackneyed Glee episodes) but, the career lends itself to some consideration.
Because I want to join in on the fun…
Cate Blanchett
Bankability: She’s been part of two successful franchises now (Indiana Jones and Lord of the Rings), though she wasn’t the draw for either. Hasn’t really carried any successful films herself, except maybe Notes on a Scandal. Her breakthrough movie Elizabeth was successful enough to spawn a sequel (does this count as a third franchise?) but The Golden Age bombed. 6
Charisma: So, so much! Who doesn’t love her? 9
Gossip: Not really any that I know of. Unless we count Tracy Morgan telling her to “deal with it” at the Golden Globes. 2
Prestige: Up the wazoo. 10
Endurance: Again, she’s been around since Elizabeth (1998), and has had a solid career, going back and forth between prestige pictures and blockbusters. With her reprising her LotR role in the upcoming Hobbit films, she’s still going to be around a while. 8
So, 35. Border-liner. But I see her pulling a Streep and keeping herself busy with successful comedies when she’s older.
I can’t believe Jodie Foster isn’t on the list!
Bankability: Is there anything people won’t see her in? Nell, Silence of the Lambs, Panic Room, The Brave One, on and on. At least 9.
Charisma: Polite and reserved but gracious and loved. Made fully functional transition from child star to adult actress/director/producer and even survived some crazed fans in between. 8
Gossip: Tough because she refuses to talk about her personal life and/or weird stuff like obsessive stalker fans, but perhaps this makes her even more compelling?? Oh and she stands by Mel Gibson, wha? 4
Prestige: TONS! Two Oscars, two Golden Globes, two BAFTAs, tons more nods, etc etc. Oh and she went to freaking Yale. 10
Endurance: Taxi Driver came out in 1976. 10!
Total: 41
Jodie Foster is an interesting case — it’s hard to judge, in part because she makes so few films. But there definitely are things that people don’t want to see her in, including The Beaver, which made less than a million dollars. The Brave One made $37 million in 2007, and before that, Flight Plan made $90 million (in 2005) and Panic Room also made upwards of $90 million (in 2002). She has potential — especially when she plays the ‘strong woman under siege’ role — but I think she’s far less invested in being a marquee movie star than in picking and choosing and, recently, returning to directing. But people do not cast her in a movie thinking that it’s automatically going to make money, especially as she ages. I’d say her bankability is a 4.
She does have charisma, however. And I think you’re right on the gossip mark (especially with the rampant and recurring speculation over whether or not she is, indeed, a lesbian). And also right on prestige.
Which does put her at 36…..we’ll see how the new Roman Polanksi film (in which she stars) does.
I see someone mentioned Keira Knightly but didn’t do the numbers, and I think there’s really something there (though I live in Britain so maybe she’s a bigger deal here?)
Bankability: 7. Though not necessarily the draw for it she was part of the first two pirates movies. She was also part of Love Actually and King Arther which did alright. She also carried Pride&Prejudice and Atonement which earned in the 30-50 mil range.
Charisma: 6. I think she’s adorable. She’s got that accent and that smile. On the other hand, I’ve heard more than one man say they don’t find her attractive so…I dunno.
Gossip: 5. In England she’s occasionally a hot topic in terms of dating life and image (too thin. anorexic? etc.)
Prestige: 6. Though her indie efforts (Domino) have bombed she still makes the effort, and I think she’s willing to try to be more than just a pretty face (Bend it like Beckham). And though it did so poorly I thought she was actually fantastic in The Duchess.
Endurance: 7. Again, maybe it’s a British thing but I’ve been watching her since 1999.
So…31.
Ahaha you should come and my site, everyone seem to hate her lately.
*on my site…
Yeah, I’ve been getting that impression lately too but I don’t know why.
Kate Hudson (this is fun!)
Bankability: “How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days” was her biggest movie and that was 8 years ago. Since then, she’s had major films, but they’ve gone down in gross every time. “Something Borrowed” wasn’t particularly big. Used to be a 9, now it’s a 6.
Charisma: She doesn’t have all her mom’s charisma, but she’s got a lot of it. 8.
Gossip: Let’s see… at the moment, she’s pregnant (always good for the career), engaged to an up-and-coming musician (good for everyone!). That would be good by itself, but she’s got an adorable son by another musician, and we all followed that relationship, too. Plus, she’s the daughter to Goldie, common-law-step-daughter to Kurt Russell. 8.
Prestige: Oscar nominated for “Almost Famous,” but that was 11 years ago. Now does standard rom-com fair, and has sort of become the lady Matthew McConaughey. 3.
Endurance:. Broke out in “Almost Famous” 11 years ago and has worked steadily since then. 8.
33
I’m not going to attempt to quantify it too much, precisely because, following Matt Singer, I think that “Movie stardom is ephemeral and unquantifiable. Box office numbers don’t always add up to public perception,” but what about Beyoncé? Surprised no one has mentioned her yet. A couple of years ago Obsessed had a $28 million opening weekend. My other favorite discussion of Simmons’s piece, aside from this one, is the one going on over at Hollywood Elsewhere, even if it’s very male-centric.
I really love what this post provides for those of us who don’t have a PhD in Hollywood stuff: A clear outline of what elements make someone a movie star at a certain point in time. We usually think it’s just charisma or luck, which can be so vague and subjective. It’s not that people are famous because they truly are the most special people on the planet — this is an industry, a formula. (Tiny note: “Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close” is by Jonathan Safran Foer, not Franzen. … I love Foer.)
Also, the comments on this remind me of my favorite dudes in “High Fidelity” hanging out in the record shop making their top 10 lists.
I’m not really adding any women only to say that no one’s mentioned worldwide film gross. I loved Winter’s Bone but translating that to Portugese (for Brazil) or Mandarin Chinese? Remember The Tourist made money overseas.
I’m gonna try to quantify Blake Lively(just because she’s an interesting case and I read your article on her and Leo)
Bankability: The Town was a modest hit ( but not because of her) and so were the Sisterhood movies (which were sort of because of her), but her ” guaranteed” hit the Green Lantern was a flop. She’s done some indies that don’t require large box office, though. I’d say a 3, maybe a 4.
Charisma: She’s totally California Casual/Glam, which appeals to some while leaving others cold. Still, she dresses interestingly, has amazing hair that she does not always take advantage of, and has somehow charmed Anna Wintour (two Vogue covers!) and Karl Lagerfeld (face of chanel bags). She must have something they like, so a 6.
Gossip: Went from super boring committed relationship with her romantic interest on her show to dodging paparazzi in Italy with a completely smitten Leo, to the surprise and delight of every gossip mag in america. Also, Gossip Girl was super buzzworthy just a few years ago and she managed to make people believe it was because of her. Definitely a 9.
Prestige: Has been working with quality people in The Town, New York, I love You, and The Private Lives of Pippa Lee. Plus almost charmed Baz Lurhman into giving her Daisy in The Great Gatsby. She is slowly building a resume that belies her acting talent, or lack thereof. Still in comparison to her GG costars, including more talented Leighton Meester, her movie choices are stellar. So, 4.
Endurance: she’s been acting for about 10 years, but didn’t break until Gossip Girl in 2007. Green Lantern was her last high profile role, her other three appear to be indies (which will build prestige, if she improves her acting) and not many people know her from tv. She really needed Leo, who can only help her. I’d say a 4 because of her relationship and charm.
Total: 23 or 24 and untested.
Ok, so I’m thinking that Drew Barrymore should rank higher than Cameron Diaz because she is a better actress in my opinion…
Bankability: 8 - there are several big hits she’s starred in
Charisma: 5 - I can’t figure out where she’d rank on this one, so just a guess
Gossip: 5 - I see her every once in a while on blogs, but she usually isn’t giving people a lot to talk about other than her talent and somewhat different looks
Prestige: 9 - She came from a family of actors and actresses…
Endurance: 10 - Almost everyone knows who she is and doesn’t mistake her for someone else
total: 37
So, just a quibble, but Mila Kunis has been on the scene since she was 14 and part of That ’70s Show. Her endurance might need to be bumped.
I’m late to the party, and new to this blog, so rather than rock the boat by launching an extensive argument, I will merely quibble a bit.
Mila Kunis’s endurance score should be a bit higher than a 2, in my very humble opinion, as she’s had some pretty popular and long running TV roles. I know this is a blog about film, primarily but I also don’t think those TV roles are for nothing. That 70′s Show started in 1998, and ran for eight seasons. Mila has also voices a recurring character on Family Guy, for I think 8 or 9 out of it’s ten seasons. (I know Meg’s voice was someone else originally, but I’m not sure for how long, and wikipedia isn’t helping.)
I’m always going to stand up for Drew Barrymore - she was my teenage heroine. But you know who has been totally forgotten?!
MEG RYAN. I will give you that she’s not much of a star lately, but look at the box office numbers she’s pulled in throughout her career. And she’s still well loved. She had that great Russell Crowe gossip back in the day. She practically defined rom coms in the 90s (along with Julia Roberts). Recently(ish), I really liked In the Land of Women.
(As a sidenote, I adored Rabbit Hole, but NK’s plastic-y face really gets to me!)
Im late, but I think everyone forgot KRISTEN DUNST.
Bankability: Marie Antoinette, Virgin Suicide and all the Spiderman big box office she so deserve a 8.5
Charisma: She has a face and specially those dimples. 7
Gossip: No so much but she goes for rehab 2 or 3 years ago. 4.
Prestige: She’s definitely running for an Oscar with this Melancholia Lars Von Tiers movie. Plus she’s Sofia Coppola’s for ever muse. 8.
Endurance:. Interview with the Vampire: The Vampire Chronicles (where she also kiss the Pitt) 17 years ago and has worked steadily since then. 8.
So, 35.5
[...] Wonderful article by Anne Helen Petersen This Week in Arguments: Top 24 Female Stars? | Celebrity Gossip, Academic Style. [...]
Jennifer Lawrence should definitely make the list, easily at Tier 3.
I haven’t read thru all of the comments, but I feel Nicole Kidman has to be included in this list, probably in the mainstays. She’s been around for over two decades, and while she’s not huge with box office, she gets paid BIG BUCKS still, and is a gossip mainstay. Using your formula:
Bankability: Not her biggest asset. Batman Forever, Moulin Rouge!, Happy Feet, Bewitched were all in the past. She’s had some big flops too (The Golden Compass, Australia) 5?
Charisma: She has it, and in a very unique way. She comes off almost as aloof, and she’s gorgeous. 7
Gossip: Has had a lot: the Tom Cruise ordeal, her marriage to Keith Urban, talks of plastic surgery, etc. 8
Prestige: Tons. She’s widely considered one of the best actresses of her generation, has an Oscar and two other nominations including one within the last two years. 10
Endurance: She’s lasted a long time and managed to stay in our minds despite a string of bombs. 8
29, and I’m being hard on her I think. She should be included.
I love the earlier suggestion of Helena Bonham Carter, and I agree Jennifer Lawrence needs to be included on the up-and-coming category. Also I would say that Emma Stone has more prestige than you give her credit. She got a Golden Globe nom for Easy A, and critics adored her. And The Help was nominated for Best Picture. Also Kristen Stewart has no charisma at all, she should get a 0 for that category.
I know I’m years behind seeing this article, but I really liked the discussion, so I commented.